AHF is driven by a focus on the future— creating a world that’s safer, more accepting, and more equitable. That future will be designed in part by the next generation of advocates, which is why emphasizing youth advocacy is so central to the AHF’s mission. This week, we’ll hear from three AHF youth advocates about their unique and powerful perspectives.
Speaking with the Future
Discussing advocacy with AHF youth advocates
GUEST BIO:
Aiden, Gabby, and Cameron are three youth advocates whose parents all work as AHF employees. They range from fourth grade (Gabby) to 9th (Cameron) and 10th (Aiden).
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[1:50] - What Does Advocacy Mean to You?
Pure perspectives from young people
Answers to this question range from “speaking up, not speaking over” and standing up for what you believe in, to lending your voice to a group of people who need your support. This simple yet powerful definition of advocacy is one that we could all stand to keep in mind when the world of being an advocate seems complicated or frustrating.
[6:19] - Engaging Youth Advocates
What older generations can do
How can the older generation get youth involved in advocacy? It begins with being open and sharing their stories, rather than hiding the past or difficult truths from young people. Show the full story of the past, the bad and the good, because it informs the present and ultimately the future.
[25:29] - A Plea for Lawmakers
What leaders can do to ensure school safety
Safe areas, enhanced security measures, and better protocols can all be beneficial to help avoid dangerous situations at school. But the truth is that many attackers are people welcomed into schools— students or past students, etc. So our youth advocates’ perspective is that we have to reduce access to the weapons of choice of these attackers— high-capacity rifles.
[0:00] - A Message of Hope
Optimism amid widespread pessimism
When all three youth guests are asked whether they have hope for the future of this country, the answer is a resounding “Yes.” There are many complex issues that must be addressed, and we’re nowhere near the finish line, but all three guests feel there is hope that positive outcomes can emerge when it comes to all of these issues.
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ABOUT AFTER HOURS:
The AIDS Healthcare Foundation is the world’s largest HIV/AIDS service organization, operating in 45 countries globally. The mission? Providing cutting-edge medicine and advocacy for everyone, regardless of ability to pay.
The After Hours podcast is an official podcast of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, in which host Lauren Hogan is joined by experts in a range of fields to educate, inform, and inspire listeners on topics that go far beyond medical information to cover leadership, creativity, and success.
Learn more at: https://www.aidshealth.org
ABOUT THE HOST:
Lauren Hogan is the Associate Director of Communications for the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, and has been working in a series of roles with the Foundation since 2016. She’s passionate about increasing the public visibility of AIDS, the Foundation's critical work, and how everyday people can help join the fight to make cutting-edge medicine, treatment, and support available for anyone who needs it.
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Lauren Hogan:
Check out what's new and happening from leaders in the community. Learn the ins and outs of advocacy, events, and activations. Get involved, make an impact, and do something that adds value in your life. AHF is the world's largest HIV AIDS service organization, operating in 45 countries globally, 16 states domestically, including DC and Puerto Rico. Our mission is to provide cutting edge medicine and advocacy, regardless of ability to pay.
Lauren Hogan:
Hello, and welcome to the AHFter Hours podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Hogan, serving as your liaison to take you on a journey to learn more about AIDS Healthcare Foundation. Our topic for today is learn, lead, act. Before we start the show, please make sure to remember to check out the show notes so you can follow along. Now, let's get started.
Lauren Hogan:
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the AHFter Hours podcast. As always, I'm your host, Lauren Hogan, and we have a very special episode today. We are discussing youth advocacy, and we've got some youth advocates with us, Aiden, Gabby, and Cameron. So, welcome to the show.
Cameron:
Thank you.
Aiden:
Thanks.
Gabby:
Thanks for letting us be here.
Lauren Hogan:
So really quickly, can you just tell us your ages, and what grade level you're in, in school?
Aiden:
Hi, Aiden. 15, and I am in sophomore year, 10th grade.
Gabby:
I'm Gabby. I'm 10 years old, and I'm in fourth grade at the moment.
Cameron:
Hi, I'm Cameron. And I'm going into my freshman year of high school.
Lauren Hogan:
Wow. Okay. So, you guys are the kids of some of our AHF employees, and a lot of what your parents do is around advocacy for this organization. So, just to start off, what does advocacy mean to you guys? Aiden, let's start with you.
Aiden:
Advocacy means to me personally, not talking for other people, but rather saying what you believe to be true when others might talk against you. Not speaking over people, but rather speaking up in general, just to help to do a good thing.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. Gabby?
Gabby:
I feel like advocacy is basically speaking out to, for a whole group of people. So basically, like for a random example, the LGBTQ community, or the Florida's 'don't say gay' bill. A whole group of people were coming to protest.
Lauren Hogan:
Cameron?
Cameron:
Advocacy for me is simply just standing up for what you believe in, and not letting anyone disable or break down your own beliefs.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. So, flashback time. What is the first memory you guys have of your parent dragging you to an AHF advocacy event? Aiden? I know you've been to a million, so just what's the first one that you can remember?
Aiden:
The reason why this is so hard, is because my mom's been bringing me to the office literally almost three days after I was born. So, I've been to many, as you said. I guess, some of the first I remember, were the parades, the pride parades. My mom took me to floats that I would see being made, parts and stuff around the office. Then, when the parade actually happened, we had tents and other stuff set up there. My mom was doing what she does best, advocacy and such. And I specifically remember being on the float that day. So, I think that's the earliest. I was probably somewhere around eight or nine.
Lauren Hogan:
And Gabby, you're 10. So, what was the first advocacy event rather that you remember?
Gabby:
I don't really remember it that much, but the only thing that I remember was this one parade.
Lauren Hogan:
So, a pride parade for you too?
Gabby:
I'm pretty sure it was.
Lauren Hogan:
Cameron, what about you?
Cameron:
So, the first it was actually a protest, I think. The first advocacy event I was dragged into, it was during the decline, if you want to say, of the pandemic, where we drove to some building. I don't know what building it was. And we walked around there, encouraging people to get the vaccine, because at that time that was our main goal.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. So, from your perspectives, what do you guys think are the top three most important advocacy issues at this point in time, in this country? Aiden?
Aiden:
In this country, at the current moment?
Lauren Hogan:
It can be anything. It could be political, it could be social, economical, anything.
Aiden:
At this point, I believe it's abortion, [inaudible 00:05:25], LGBTQ human rights as in stuff like trans healthcare, especially when it comes to trans issues. And I think third one that is also very important, because it encompasses a lot of other problems, is healthcare in general. Healthcare for all, and stuff like that.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. Gabby?
Gabby:
I'm going to have to say homophobia, racism and transphobia. The homophobia's for the Florida's 'don't say gay' bill. The racism is for Floyd's death. And the transphobia is for many people being killed just for being trans.
Lauren Hogan:
Cameron?
Cameron:
I'm going to piggyback off of Aiden's top two for there, abortion and LGBTQ rights. And just to have a third one, I'd probably say third is just racism all around, because being oppressed by the color of your skin tone or where you were born, is still a real thing that needs to be addressed.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. What do you guys think that the older generation should be doing to help get the youth involved in advocacy more? Cameron, we can start with you this time.
Cameron:
I think the older generations can take us back and talk about what life was like when we weren't even here, and how people in some places they could be as free as they want and who they want, marry who they can marry. And some places where they just couldn't be their true selves at all. And I think maybe we can have them speak up, and talk about their stories more.
Lauren Hogan:
Gabby?
Gabby:
I think about possibly trying to make maybe shows or cartoons about famous advocates such as [inaudible 00:07:08], Kahandi, and Martin Luther King.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. You're the creative in the group. Got it. Aiden?
Aiden:
I'm going to mirror what Cameron said, and say that the best way I think, is to show the younger audience exactly what it was like in the past. Because a lot of kids in a lot of situations, when it comes to problems with today, a lot of younger people don't know a lot of... Like LGBT teens don't really know about the AIDS epidemic, and stuff relating to that. A lot of people, black people, younger black people, don't really know what stuff like rioting was like, when Rodney King was beaten. People can't understand what things were like in the past if we don't teach them, and we don't teach them because we don't teach these topics in schools usually. So, the older generation can help by talking to us, and showing us media, and other things that tell us what that's like. Because then we have something to contrast what now is like with then, and then that makes people want to do things, because they see the past and the present, and they go, "Well, not much changed." And they go, "I'm going to help change it."
Lauren Hogan:
So, saying in that vein, how do you guys feel at this point in time in this country? To your point, Aiden, you were saying, you don't know a lot of the past of what's happened. But in you guys' lifespan, you've experienced so much already, whether it's gun violence, or recently the overturning of Roe versus Wade for women. There's just so much trauma that you guys have already seen with... And it's not even been 20 years of your lives yet. So, how do you guys feel just every day being people of color in this country?
Aiden:
I feel like every day in the worst kind of ways, I am experiencing history. I don't really want that. I feel like every day I wake up, and I see, oh no, another black person has been killed, and everyone recorded it. Or oh, no more rights are being restricted, or taken away. And I know this is going to be in a book when I'm older, but I hate that. I don't want things that I'm experiencing right now to be in a book. I don't want to go through historical overturnings of loss, or giant pandemics. I want things to be calm.
Aiden:
And then, from there, when things are calm, we can make things better. But that's not what's happening. Right now, it feels like every other day something tragic is happening, and that sucks. I hate understanding the fact that if I look on my phone right now, I can see another black man being murdered. And while this is desensitizing, I can't feel something like that. It hurts, but it's become normal to me at this point. It's not normal, and it's going to be in history. I don't like that feeling. And I feel like that's how I feel a lot of the time.
Gabby:
How it feels is that I sometimes set up, think that I don't want to experience what I had when I was seven, when I was discriminated for being black, or having curly hair, because it just made me feel really left out.
Lauren Hogan:
I'm going to come back to that Gabby. Go ahead, Cameron.
Cameron:
When I wake up every day, I just want to be able to walk outside and know that I'm not looked down upon, or look differently, just because of the color of my skin I was born with. And even like with Aiden said, in the midst of the pandemic, I don't want to wake up and check my phone, like in February, see stuff like people getting mad over Black Lives Matter protests, or something like that.
Lauren Hogan:
So Gabby, you're only 10. And you already said that you've been discriminated against. So, what happened, one? And how did you handle it, and how did it make you feel?
Gabby:
So, back in first grade, I really wanted to play with these kids. And base they were doing this mini club. I said, "Hey, can I join?" And they said, "No, because you have dark colored skin." And it felt like a really big impact. So, what I did was first tell my mother, who then told the... I'm pretty sure the principal. And then, we had this session with the school counselor on what, on what happened. Basically, it felt like I was trying to fight a war.
Lauren Hogan:
And do you think that that's impacted your views on the world since then?
Gabby:
At some parts of the world.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. So additionally, Aiden, have you ever experienced discrimination? And if you have, how did that make you feel, and how did you handle it?
Aiden:
Me, personally, I haven't experienced any at all, but I know my friends have, and that hurts. I haven't. I've been lucky enough to not experience it, but I have a lot of LGBT, or other black friends, or other kinds minorities. And it sucks. Literally, just last school year, one of my friends, some random kid behind him, took a photo of him, and put a bunch of swastikas and other awful stuff around his face, and just sent it to a group chat. And the only way he found out that this kid did it, is because one of the kids in the group chat, snitched, and told a teacher. I've been lucky enough to avoid it, but it hurts seeing the other people around me have to deal with that, sometimes constantly, sometimes from people they know, like relatives.
Lauren Hogan:
Cameron, what about you?
Cameron:
I'm basically in the same boat with Aiden. I, thankfully, haven't been exposed to discrimination at all. But I know of, in my last school year, there have been plenty of racist, antisemitic jokes about, obviously the Holocaust and even things like George Floyd. I can't even believe that people would even joke about George Floyd like that. And thankfully, I haven't been on the recipient end of those jokes, that I know of. But it just sickens me that people actually have the animosity towards these groups of people.
Lauren Hogan:
So, staying in the vein of discrimination, how do you guys feel about 'don't say gay' laws. And Aiden, you're in Ohio. So, you're in a very red state, and some of these laws have already been passed through legislation. So how do you feel about it?
Aiden:
It's crazy. We think about laws in a bubble. We think about laws as this thing separate to our everyday life, because we're not criminals, we're not going to do a crime. Why would we need to be constantly concerned with what laws are there and not, if I'm going to just go outside and get some milk and go back home today and I'm not going to become a murderer suddenly. It would be weird to just think about that all the time. At least, that's how I feel, most people feel. But with a lot of discriminative laws coming out, especially the 'don't say gay' bill, and other bills... I shouldn't say bill, because there are many. But when it comes to stuff like that, it's even more crazy, because now it's like, okay, well now people have to think about the law when they're not doing anything.
Aiden:
It's like if something you did casually every day, or just something that was a part of you, like if wearing red could get you charged with manslaughter. Now, that's absurd, of course. Doing something as mundane and simple as just wearing red outside, is just like, it's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. But since there are laws that say you can't wear red, or you will be charged with manslaughter, now just going outside, wearing what you want to wear, or being around certain kinds of people, makes you nervous. And that sucks, because now people around me are dressing in blue every day, and are nervous around people who are red.
Aiden:
And now, I have to be nervous for my friends who are around me in places, because people might see that they might be wearing red, and might get upset, and start calling them a murderer and stuff, but they're just wearing red. They shouldn't have to be concerned about laws that people they barely know in places of power and government offices, they shouldn't have to be concerned with laws like this. And the fact that they're getting passed, makes me and them way more nervous. It's crazy.
Lauren Hogan:
I think that's beautiful that you use that analogy. It reminded me of a student in Florida who gave a graduation speech about he was gay, but didn't say the word, because the legislation had been passed. He talked about his curly hair instead. So, that was a beautiful analogy that you gave. Gabby, what do you think? Because you started already talking about Florida and 'don't say gay' law. So, how do you feel about them?
Gabby:
I feel like that it's a really unfair thing to happen to some kids, because say if they want to talk to a teacher, thinking that they might be gay, lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, they won't be able to, because of the 'don't say gay' bill.
Lauren Hogan:
And overall, how do you think that that's going to be... Do you think it's going to be detrimental to kids on the mental health side of things? How do you think it's going to affect kids?
Gabby:
I feel like it's [inaudible 00:18:54] a huge impact on them in the near future, because then they won't think that gay rights are good, or maybe think that they'll be treated differently just for being gay.
Lauren Hogan:
Cameron, what about you?
Cameron:
I, myself, I'm not hugely educated on the 'don't say gay' bill, but from what I've gathered, since we basically can't say gay, we're going back in time before we even had freedom of speech. And just from my perspective, and I hope from everyone else's perspective, that's just ridiculous. Absurd.
Lauren Hogan:
So, you guys are all in school right now, with all that's happening in America right now regarding gun violence and school shootings. How do you guys feel about being a student at this point in time, and having to go into a classroom?
Aiden:
I remember being in... I think it was third grade. I remembered vividly the classroom setup. We changed the tables all the time, but there was always on the wall, this little... It was like a mini table protruding from the wall. It was where the closets were. And then, you just had a long stretch of space where very small, third graders could fit under when we had those drills. I remember vividly kids shuffling into that area, and we all snuggling up tight and close to each other. And when the teacher would jiggle the door, everybody would went through and shock. But then the teacher would shush us, and we all went dead silent. And then, we just had to go back to cuddle, or coloring. That was just how it worked. You just experienced something insane. And then, you just go back to learning your multiplication tables.
Aiden:
And then at some point, kids just grew up and stopped caring. We would make dumb makeshift toys out of office supplies to throw at the shooter who was just our principal shaking the door. But I think at some point, all of us just knew in the back of, literally I cannot remember a time where I haven't walked into an area, and casually noted all the exits. Right now, if a shooter walked in, I know exactly where to go in order to leave in time. I know exactly where I could hide if I needed to. I know what I could use as a weapon, which is good, but it shouldn't be necessary.
Aiden:
Last anecdote, I promise, I remember one time in the science class, this had to have been eighth grade, right before I entered high school, we were just learning about school stuff. And there was a loud bang downstairs, and all the lights went down. Now, people weren't very concerned with this, especially because the class was in a more lighthearted mood talking about subjects that weren't very heavy, but no one talked, the teacher was smiling. Kids were still giggling after the joke he just made. But no one really talked. We all held our breath, because we were waiting for the next one, the next loud sound. And then, the noise from the speaker, "Lockdown. Lockdown." And then the rushing out of the halls, and then the TV cameras, and then realizing our best friends or our family members are gone. And then the news, and then we moved to a new school, and then whatever, but that never came. The lights just turned on after five minutes and we just pretended that didn't happen. I think that is how I operate now. I just expect it.
Lauren Hogan:
Gabby. How do you feel about it?
Gabby:
It makes me feel sometimes when I wake up, but I think that any moment someone could shoot a teacher, or the principal. In the past, before I came to that school, there was a school shooting, which then I was thinking, which we do not talk about. But it just made me feel like something's going to happen at that Texas shooting. And another shooting that I heard on the news, it just made me... Trigger something of me to make me feel safe. And when we had that lockdown drill, I felt like I was about to have an anxiety attack.
Lauren Hogan:
So, just so I'm clear, the first part of what you said, have you experienced the school shooting?
Gabby:
I have never. It just happened before I went to that school.
Lauren Hogan:
It happened before you started attending the school you're in now?
Gabby:
Yeah.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. Cameron, how do you feel about the gun violence in schools?
Cameron:
So, I have another anecdote light Aiden had. It was second grade, and we had our typical lockdown drill. We were all sitting underneath tables, underneath the big projector our teacher had. And then, there were windows peeking over bookshelves where we can see outside. And then, we saw and heard a man walking. And then, as typical second graders thinking it's a lockdown drill, that man is dangerous, we all just started bawling. And then after, we realized it was just a construction worker. But that fear that has been implanted in us, just triggered waterworks. And even in present day eighth grade, it was before I even graduated the Texas shooting and the Buffalo shooting. I know it was the last days of school, and the positive side of graduating, moving on the high school, outweighed the negative of having the dangers of having the school shut up. Even that, it's still terrifying.
Lauren Hogan:
So Gabby, I'm going to come to you now. What do you feel the government, or even your local elected officials, should be doing to ensure your safety while you're at school?
Gabby:
Possibly trying to maybe install many crawl space for us to find a safe area, to find safety. Or just maybe try to have the school have a security code on it. So it won't ever happen again.
Lauren Hogan:
So like access can't be breached, because there's a security system. Or if there's a specific basement or something, you guys can go into, to ensure you're safe until the threat's over?
Gabby:
Yeah.
Lauren Hogan:
Aiden, what do you think?
Aiden:
In contrast to Gabby, I've always had this thought in the back of my head, there is no... This is not to distress you. There is no security system that someone who is in the school every day, cannot breach. Because shooters, and this was taught to me back when I was hiding under that crawlspace in third grade, we thought a shooter might be like some random guy in a black mask, which happens sometimes, but not most of the time. It's not some random mysterious man in a black mask.
Aiden:
It's some guy who is in the school, who knows where people hide or go whenever drills happen, who knows that the policeman is standing right there at lunchtime, and knows to go for him first. Who knows that, even though they have clear book bags installed, they don't check their lunch boxes. Who knows how to get around the metal detectors, to know which kids can provide him the weapon he may seek. There's no way to install a security measure inside of a school, that protects all the kids inside, and keeps the shooter who is also inside, out. Unless if you want to now give every child in a school, a pat down, which I think at that point we're not schools anymore. We're doing TSA checks for prisons.
Aiden:
So, what I think we need to do, the focus should be on the guns. I don't even really believe in taking the entire... I don't believe that we should take all guns away. I believe what should happen, is that there needs to be more legislation on assault style weapons, which is good. But even then, those aren't really what are used in shootings. It's handguns. So, we should also work on those too. We need to make sure that there's probably a tax on ammo, so that way people can't get it as easily. We have to make sure that there are more gun checks at gun shows, so that way kids can't just walk into them and get guns. Which isn't happening all the time, but still needs to be completely not possible. And we need to take a step back and realize that the problem is not kids can't escape fast enough. It's that guns are too easy to get.
Lauren Hogan:
Cameron?
Cameron:
Well, Aiden happen to steal my entire answer.
Aiden:
Apologies.
Cameron:
But one addition I can make, is that maybe just possibly, is a dream in my head, is that schools or even the government as a whole, could implement the laws that, the teachers, if they are obviously of legal age, have a gun license, and all the other stuff need to own the gun. If you want to, for the safety of your students, you may bring a gun to your school, not an assault site weapon, like a little handgun that you can just-
Lauren Hogan:
So, you think teachers should bear arms.
Cameron:
Yeah, if they want to.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay.
Cameron:
To protect their students if they want to.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. So, last question I'm going to ask you guys, and it's a bit of a heavier one, but I think it's important to hear your perspectives. How do you feel about police in this country? Do you trust them? When you see police officers, do you get nervous? I know as black men, and I don't know how you guys identify per se, so I apologize in advance, but you're not even black men, not really, you guys are black boys. Because I feel like you guys are expected to grow up a lot sooner in this country. But how do you guys feel? And you as well, Gabby, when you see police officers? Gabby, I'll start with you.
Gabby:
Well, I work for this thing called Safety Patrol. And most of the times, the officers are normally really nice. And my uncle, who is also black, is a police officer. So, so far I just feel that some police officers could keep us safe, but then I sometimes think of them, like some police officers, doing an attack at a random house, but most of the time I feel safe around them.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay. Cameron?
Cameron:
There's not a set opinion I have on cops as a whole. Are there corrupt cops who wake up every day thinking that, I have the ability to persecute and oppress someone of color? Yes, there are corrupt cops like that. But also good cops, who don't care what color skin people are, and just judge them by what felonies or what crimes they have done. Yes. But not all cops are, per se... I forgot his name. The one who murdered George Floyd.
Lauren Hogan:
We're not going to say his name, and give him any credence here. So yes, go ahead.
Cameron:
But it's also that, I'm going to call it the black instinct that I have, is that if I see a police officer abide by what they say, because they have the gun, I don't.
Lauren Hogan:
Aiden?
Aiden:
When it comes to police officers, how do I say this? This is a very strong opinion.
Lauren Hogan:
And I know you did a beautiful project about it too. So, that's why I'm actually coming to you last.
Aiden:
Yeah. I fundamentally cannot trust police officers. I'm sorry, I can't. Actually, I shouldn't entirely be sorry, because when it comes to trusting the police, I can't tell. There's all this talk about good apples and bad apples. There's just a couple of bad apples, most of them are good. But I cannot trust that when I'm in the situation where I need the police. I can't, because if... People have used this example before, but if there's a bowl of M&Ms and there's a 100 of them in this bowl, and about 10 to 20 of them are filled with cyanide, you wouldn't dare, because I can't do that. I can't eat from that bowl. What I mean by that, is that when it comes to police, I am always as calm as I can be. They smile at me. I smile back. I try to be as friendly and polite as I can, but I don't think I could ever... I can't still entirely trust you.
Aiden:
Okay, let's say, I know we're... This is mixed in with the whole shooting conversation. But can we talk about the shooting in Uvalde, where the police didn't go in initially. They knew the shooter was in there, but they didn't move in immediately. Now, there are a 100 different statements from the police, the outsiders, this, that, and the other. So, I can't give a definitive opinion on what all of them were thinking, or what all of them were trying to do. But I think in my opinion, it shows that in some part, when they talk about how some of the police officers didn't go in, because they feared that the shooter might have body armor, and they were scared for their lives. It's like, okay, but you're supposed to lay down your life for the sake of protecting people. And it makes me nervous in other situations, because it's like, okay, well, if fear can dictate exactly how much you can put into protecting people, how can I trust you?
Aiden:
So then, now it's not even a discussion of who's a bad apple, or who's a good apple, but it's, okay, who are the cops who are going to lay down their lives for me? And then, the ones who would probably do awful things to me? And then the ones who might be slow, or not entirely there, and trying to help me, for reasons in fear or otherwise. And it's like, there's so much of a spectrum here. And a lot of it is not good. So, I don't really feel entirely comfortable around the police, because it's a mixed bag, and a lot of the bag is... Well, it's not great.
Lauren Hogan:
So, on that note, I have one final question for you guys. It's really easy, yes or no. Do you hope... Do you have hope, excuse me, for this country? Just yes or no.
Aiden:
Yeah.
Lauren Hogan:
Do you have hope for this country?
Gabby:
Yes.
Lauren Hogan:
Do you have hope for this country?
Cameron:
I do. Yes.
Lauren Hogan:
I think that's a beautiful note to end on, because you guys are our future. And if you guys don't have hope, I don't know where we'd be going. So, thank you guys for joining. This was a beautiful episode. Thank you for being so honest and transparent, and expressing your thoughts. I know a lot of people are going to appreciate your transparency. So, thank you guys for joining us.
Lauren Hogan:
Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, and you'd like to help support the show, please subscribe. Share it with your friends, like, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. Follow us on Instagram, @ahfterhours, and see you next time.