This week, we spotlight three employees of AHF whose work spans a range of areas, but all of whom share some key perspectives and insights into the culture, mission, and day-to-day experience at the AIDS Healthcare Foundation.
AHF Employee Spotlight
Meet some of the incredible employees who make the AIDS Healthcare Foundation go.
GUEST BIOs:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[7:51] – Growing Through Careers
Learning on the job is central to AHF
Marisa Nilchavee shares the way that as she’s become more deeply enmeshed in AHF culture, she’s come to understand more and more about the overarching space that the organization occupies— the way that HIV and AIDs are tied to public health, to race and diversity, and to human rights more broadly. As she’s seen behind the scenes of AHF’s work, she’s developed her own more nuanced understanding of their vital work.
[10:54] – Embracing Cultural and Technological Shifts
Jonathan speaks on how patient outreach has changed
When Jonathan Cowans started at AHF, much of their outreach was in-person and via phone. Now, they’ve adapted to many people’s preferred method of communication— text messaging, native telehealth apps, and more. Rather than resisting the cultural shifts to how people communicate now, AHF has embraced them and been able to serve patients more effectively as a result.
[13:49] – ‘The Longest I’ve Stayed on a Job’
Why AHF inspires employee longevity
All three guests speak to how AHF has helped them shift from seeing jobs as a springboard to another role at another organization to fully buying into the organization’s mission and wanting to stay for the long haul. When you can be whoever you are while being embraced into a unified corporate culture, anything is possible.
[27:26] – The Work is the Reward
The ‘why’ is as important as the ‘what’
When your work aligns with your personal sense of purpose, every day doesn’t have to end with some measurable forward progress to be considered a success. The work itself is the reward, something Marisa has found throughout her time with AHF and a sentiment echoed by countless other members of the team.
RESOURCES:
[0:16] – Aids Healthcare Foundation Website
FOLLOW:
ABOUT AHFTER HOURS:
The AIDS Healthcare Foundation is the world’s largest HIV/AIDS service organization, operating in 45 countries globally. The mission? Providing cutting-edge medicine and advocacy for everyone, regardless of ability to pay.
The AHFter Hours podcast is an official podcast of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, in which host Lauren Hogan is joined by experts in a range of fields to educate, inform, and inspire listeners on topics that go far beyond medical information to cover leadership, creativity, and success.
Learn more at: https://www.aidshealth.org
ABOUT THE HOST:
Lauren Hogan is the Communications Manager for the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and has been working in a series of roles with the Foundation since 2016. She’s passionate about increasing the public visibility of AIDS, the Foundation's critical work, and how everyday people can help join the fight to make cutting-edge medicine, treatment, and support available for anyone who needs it.
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Lauren Hogan:
Get unfiltered lessons from our leaders at AHF as we uncover real, raw stories of where we came from and where we are going. Join us for an unscripted look at the connections our senior leadership have to our mission, core values, and hot initiatives. AHF is the world's largest HIV/AIDS service organization, operating in 45 countries globally, 16 states domestically, including D.C. and Puerto Rico. Our mission is to provide cutting-edge medicine and advocacy, regardless of ability to pay.
Lauren Hogan:
Hello, and welcome to the After Hours podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Hogan, serving as your liaison to take you through this journey to learn more about AIDS Healthcare Foundation. Before we start the show, please make sure to remember to check out the show notes so you can follow along. Now, let's get started.
Lauren Hogan:
So, welcome, everyone, to the After Hours podcast. As always, I'm your host, Lauren Hogan, and I've got a great group with us today to discuss all things AHF, but more so to put a spotlight on these three employees that have been with the company, and they're just doing amazing things. So, welcome, everyone. I just want to do brief introductions. Marisa, I'm going to start with you. Can you just say who you are, what your role is at AHF, and how long you've been here?
Marisa Nilchavee:
Hi. I'm Marisa Nilchavee. I am the senior executive assistant to Michael Weinstein, Peter Reis, and the board liaison. I pretty much just make sure they're where they are. That's pretty much... Make sure Michael's at his meetings, Peter's at his meetings, and board meetings are going well, and just everyone's informed as far as the company goes. I'm the behind-the-scenes of it all.
Lauren Hogan:
How long have you been with AHF?
Marisa Nilchavee:
I think it's now going on six years, six-and-a-half years.
Lauren Hogan:
So, Jason, I'm going to go to you next.
Jason Hill:
Yes. Yeah. My name's Jason Hill. I started with AHF in June of 2013. Yeah. So, right now I'm senior program manager, and I oversee the HIV testing program at the OTC, and also the wellness program that we have.
Lauren Hogan:
Jonathan?
Jonathan Cowans:
Hi. I'm Jonathan [Cowans 00:02:16]. I am the regional director of healthcare center operations for Texas. I've been with AHF since 2017. Yeah.
Lauren Hogan:
So, we've got a span of about what, five to eight years, so we've got a great group with a lot of knowledge and history at the organization, so great. So, like I said, the intent behind this episode is an employee spotlight. So, we specifically wanted to highlight you guys with your journey through AHF. So, I'm going to throw a couple of questions out to you guys. We can just popcorn it in terms of answering. So, when you guys started at AHF, what was your first position, and how has your matriculation occurred? So, Jonathan, I'll go to you first.
Jonathan Cowans:
So, when I started with AHF my position was the office administrator slash benefits counselor, so I was doing it all. I was basically trying to run the clinic and sign patients up for [inaudible 00:03:12], running insurances and things like that. So, that was my first role.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay, and how have you matriculated? So, you went from that into... Because you're a regional director now, which is a much bigger title, so what did that look like?
Jonathan Cowans:
So, after being in that role as office administrator, we were able to hire a benefits counselor, and they took on that role. Maybe a few years later, we came around and made all the office administrators practice managers, and then just recently this week, I was promoted to regional director of healthcare center operations.
Lauren Hogan:
Great. Jason?
Jason Hill:
Yeah. Like I said, I started in 2013. I was a New York City transplant, so I was doing odd-and-end jobs working for temp agencies and stuff, and in 2013 is when the AHF came to New York City, pretty much. They opened Out of the Closet. I think it started around June 2013, and I was at Brooklyn Pride, and I saw at the back of an ad Out of the Closet hiring or whatnot, so I applied. I actually began with the company as an OTC cashier. I knew a little bit about the company, but I didn't know the grand scope of everything that the company did.
Jason Hill:
So, I started as a cashier just to get my foot in the door. I worked that for about three months, and then I transitioned into an HIV testing counselor where we had an MTU program. We also started the wellness program in Brooklyn as well, and I did that for about two to three years, and then moved on into public health division of operations with PHD, and did that for probably about three years, and then I transitioned into a program manager, and here I am now.
Lauren Hogan:
Well, you've had quite the journey.
Jason Hill:
Yeah. I crawled my way up to the top.
Lauren Hogan:
Absolutely. We love to see that. Marisa, what about you?
Marisa Nilchavee:
Well, in another lifetime, I actually was a teacher beforehand, and I lived not too far from PHD, and I used to drive by, and I saw this cool building with AHF, and I'm like, "I don't know what the hell that is, but that place looks cool." So, I thought to myself, "One day I'm going to try to work for that building." Life came by, and I was a little tired of teaching. It was just kind of crazy, and I wanted to transition into something else, and I wanted to do HR, actually. So, I saw this advertisement for an HR assistant slash front desk at Sunset, and I thought, "Oh, jeez. Okay. What do we do here?" I applied. I talked to the HR people and I said, "Look, I ultimately want to do HR." They were like, "Okay. This is a foot in the door."
Marisa Nilchavee:
So, actually, I was front desk for the Sunset headquarters for almost five, six months, give or take, and then I transitioned over into... Actually, HR had an opening for a coordinator, so then I did that. I did onboarding, and then a position came open to be Michael's EA, and I said, "Hey, let's do it." So, that kind of just happened that way. So, it was a bit of a journey, but I started off as the front desk, which honestly was perhaps the best position, I think, ever, and I think you guys can probably attest too. You get to know people. You get to know everyone's positions, who they are, so you become sort of enmeshed into AHF right off the bat.
Lauren Hogan:
I feel like in a lot of ways, Marisa, you're being modest just about what you do in this role because it's really a lot. People call Marisa to say, "Hey, how's Michael feeling today? Is it cool if I ask him this question?" You get all of the craziness that happens with Michael, Peter. If something happens with the board, we got to go through you. So, you do quite a lot, so I feel like you're being a little modest in your day-to-day activities because you get phone calls from morning until night, and I know because I'm one of those people that do call you as well.
Marisa Nilchavee:
That's okay, Lauren, because I call you right back.
Lauren Hogan:
That's true. We do tag team. It's fair. But I want to kick a question right back to you, Marisa, because you kind of touched on it a little bit just now, but how has your view of AHF grown since you started being here for about six years, and where you view AHF now?
Marisa Nilchavee:
When I started at AHF, I didn't quite know much about it. So, I think the cool part about being part of the HR crew is that HR's very enmeshed into the AHF culture and just understanding all the things we do. So, I think for me, it's just sort of, okay, we promote... So, part of it was we promote condoms. I'm like, "Okay, that's interesting. What does that mean? What does promoting condom mean? Why are we promoting that?" and it got into just the health of people, HIV and AIDS, but then it got deeper and deeper. It got into the stigma, and then got into race and diversity, and rights of the minorities, period. So, it's progressed along the way, and as I've progressed along the position, and now sitting... I get a great view behind the scenes, and I see the wheels turning, and I see the progression and where we're headed, and what we stand for.
Marisa Nilchavee:
I've just grown to love AHF in a way that I didn't really expect in the beginning. It's sort of like, "Okay, it's a job, and they do great things. They do protesting and all that stuff. Okay, that's cool." You get to be a part of things, but you really get into the nitty-gritty of understanding this is more than just a healthcare organization. This is about rights and diversity and just standing up for what is right, not to be a cliché in that, but it is setting up for what's right.
Lauren Hogan:
Jonathan, I'm going to go to you next because, Jason, I feel like you're the most senior person here in terms of being at the organization. So, Jonathan, I'm going to go to you next.
Jonathan Cowans:
I totally agree with Marisa. When I first started with AHF, well, I don't even remember applying for the job for AHF, and it just kind of fell into my lap because it was pretty much new to Texas. I was new to Texas. I'm originally from Mississippi, so it wasn't really big in Mississippi then. So, once I got here I was like, "Oh, wow. This is a company that's really out there, that's fighting for people, that's trying to end an epidemic, that's trying to really get patients into care," and that's what I really liked about it. I can say that it was a little behind on technology once I first started, and moving with the times, but it's like a light switch went off. About 2019, '18, things had started to change. They were moving with technology. They got the patient portal onboard, and they were able to send text messages using [inaudible 00:10:29] and things like that, so it is growing and moving into the right direction, I feel like.
Lauren Hogan:
So, I'm actually going to ask you a follow-up question, Jonathan. So, how do you feel like our engagement with our patients has changed from when you started until now? Is it better? Because you mentioned we have faster technology, we're more up with the times. So, do you think our engagement has improved because of all of the updates that we've done?
Jonathan Cowans:
Yes, most definitely. I feel like a lot of patients, they don't have time to answer their phone, but hey, I could respond back to a text message and say, "Hey, you missed your appointment today," or, "Hey, I would like to do a quick video visit with you." I totally forgot to leave that part out because when I first started, we wasn't doing telehealth, and now we are doing telehealth due to COVID. So, that was one of the positive thing came from COVID. We're able to do telehealth now, and a lot of patients, they're not able to take off work and come into their doctor's appointment. Now they can take a quick 15-minute break and go do their telehealth visit. So, I think that is just awesome, and AHF is moving in a positive direction with technology and things like that.
Lauren Hogan:
Jason, I'm going to go to you next. What are your thoughts?
Jason Hill:
Yeah. My view of AHF has changed tremendously. Like Jonathan was saying, shout out to Mississippi. I'm from Mississippi as well. I didn't know much. I was coming from Mississippi, and I was living in New Orleans when I moved to New York City. I didn't know much about AHF, being from those places, even though we do have some presence in Jackson and Baton Rouge at one time. But yeah, whenever I moved to New York I was temping, and Out of the Closet opened up, and I thought I was going to be tagging clothes. I knew we did some HIV testing, but I didn't know the whole grand scope of what AHF does, and just through the years it has really become something I'm proud of. When someone asks what I do, I'm like, "I work for AHF. We're a non-profit global organization," and I tell them about all the wonderful services that we do.
Jason Hill:
So, just going from just that OTC cashier and moving up the chain through PHD or whatnot, and here in Brooklyn we have the healthcare center attached, and knowing about the people that are living with HIV or coming in for PrEP, and just all the great services that we do. It's an extremely prideful thing, that you can work for an organization that is so mission-driven, and that are changing people's lives for the better, and especially on our global aspect. I think that's what was really shocking to me, is that we're in 45 different countries. We're doing this amazing work in Africa. We are literally saving lives. No matter what you're doing within this organization, it's very important work to our mission and to what we're doing, and it's something to be very prideful about. It's great. We're doing a lot of great work.
Lauren Hogan:
So, collectively, Jason, you've been here for eight years, Marisa, six, Jonathan, about five. What has made you guys stay at an organization for this long? Because people love to talk about Millennials. I'm going to consider everybody in this group a Millennial, whether you think or not. You are. People think that Millennials don't stick with jobs for a very long time, we have the attention span of two-year-olds, we can't focus, all these different things. So, what has made you guys stay at this organization for at least five years or more? Jonathan, I can go to you first.
Jonathan Cowans:
You are absolutely right. This is the longest I've ever stayed on the job.
Lauren Hogan:
See? There you go.
Jonathan Cowans:
I used to give a job one to two years and I'm out because I wanted to move on to the next best thing. But I can say that growth is probably one of the things that have made me stay with AHF, growth, being able to learn different things, being able to go to different events. There's so many different perks with AHF as far as the non-profit organization with the student loans, assisting staff members and things like that that want to go to school to be MAs and things of that nature. It's just growth, I feel like. That's one of the reasons why I've stayed.
Lauren Hogan:
Jason?
Jason Hill:
Oh, my. Yeah. As a transplant, and then as you come into this full-time time that I've found and working, and it's super cliché, but we really, especially being new to the Northeast and new to New York City, but the services, we really grew up and we've grown together as a family, and I know that's cliché, but I love the people that I work with. I love the people that we work for, and like Jonathan was saying, there's a lot of perks. I mean, we work hard, but we also play hard. We work hard, but we have fun doing it, and it's mission-driven, the Prides that we're involved with. Yeah, that's what keeps me going, and just being... I think also, what's special about AHF that a lot of people can't say is we can be who we truly are. You can be an out gay man. You can be whoever you are. You can be that person and thrive, and thrive in the workforce. So, I think that's what keeps me here, and just the mission. That's definitely what keeps me here.
Lauren Hogan:
So, if I were to put on my HR hat, I would say you're saying diversity and inclusion? We've got to use buzzwords, so there we go.
Jason Hill:
Yes, diversity and inclusion, for sure.
Lauren Hogan:
Marisa, what about you?
Marisa Nilchavee:
A little echoing off Jason, I'm going to start off the bat with our coworkers. You can have different jobs, and you always think it's greener on the other side. I'll be honest. I think it's the greenest here on the AHF side, and it is the coworkers. You build relationships with them, and you become a family, and I think having sat on the side of HR and seeing new employees come in, it's a different environment. AHF, we're our own kind of mom-and-pop, but we're a little... Financially, we're more stable than that, but we're just like a small family, and I think that is the key, and I think that's what keeps me around, and Jason and Jonathan and yourself, Lauren, that's what it is. We're a family.
Marisa Nilchavee:
We joke around, we have fun, but we get the job done. You can go up to somebody, "Hey, I need this report," and you can play around with them, and then you build that relationship, and the report's there for you the next second. It's that relationship we build with each other, and I think for me, going along the way is seeing just the dedication or senior managers have in building AHF and expanding AHF, and being very cautious and very thoughtful of how they approach things in terms of employees, not just the patients and our clients, but the employees themselves, and I think being able to sit and see the thoughtfulness behind that, it's just incredible, and I think to myself, where would I go? There's nowhere else I would want to go. I mean, to see a thoughtfulness behind it, I think that goes a long way. So, for me, it definitely is the coworkers, all of us here together, just knowing behind the scenes there's so much thought and so much care and candor with each other to progress AHF and grow all of us. So, that's what keeps me here at AHF.
Lauren Hogan:
Those were some nice adjectives, Marisa.
Marisa Nilchavee:
My teaching days are not always over, Lauren.
Lauren Hogan:
So, let me ask you guys this. I know this might take a couple seconds to think about, but what has been your favorite memory at AHF? It could be an event, it could be a protest, it could be something that happened in the office. What would you guys say would be your favorite memory? Take two seconds to think, and then I got to volunteer one of you guys as tribute. Marisa, you know I was coming to you first.
Marisa Nilchavee:
All right. Of course. I can't pick one. I have two, Lauren, so I have two.
Lauren Hogan:
Okay, that's fair. Go ahead.
Marisa Nilchavee:
One's an inside scoop, and the senior managers... Hopefully, I still have a job. But I'll tell you the first one is actually my first protest, and we were protesting in Downtown LA, and I had never been to a protest before, ever. There we were in our t-shirts. We're protesting down to City Hall in LA. Michael's on the bullhorn just shouting. I just thought to myself, "Wow. The impact, the energy of this is just incredible." We don't know the outcome of this particular subject matter, or any of the subject matters, but to be a part of it and feel that energy, it's just so amazing, and to say, "I stood up. I did something."
Marisa Nilchavee:
We sometimes are passive. We talk to our friends or our spouses or whatever and we're like, "That's wrong. That's not cool," but to actually physically get out there, that's amazing, and the fact that it's just open to all employees, anybody. You can be the cashier at OTC, you can be a director somewhere, and you can just come down, put on your tennis shoes, and just start marching and protest. So, I think that's pretty amazing. My one behind-the-scene thing, and forgive me, senior managers, off the bat here, is actually, they did a karaoke for one of their senior manager retreats, and I think to say, and I'm going to say this, to see Tom Myers get up and sing Kelly Clarkson's Since U Been Gone was perhaps the highlight.
Lauren Hogan:
What?
Jason Hill:
That's awesome.
Marisa Nilchavee:
I think to see him do it, Tom, forgive me, but I think seeing that moment, seeing them together, I think you see them and you think, "Oh, they're so serious and talking about..." but to see them actually just have so much fun and see they're just like us, they're completely like us, having fun, but I think that moment for me was just like, that's pretty awesome. That's pretty cool, to see them just literally let their hair down and sing their hearts out. So, yeah.
Lauren Hogan:
That seems very entertaining, I have to say. I wish I could've been there.
Marisa Nilchavee:
I do have video, so I'm using that as collateral.
Lauren Hogan:
Oh, text me later. Text me later.
Marisa Nilchavee:
I'm using that as collateral for whatever I may.
Jason Hill:
Uh-oh.
Lauren Hogan:
Text me later. I promise I won't tell anybody you sent it to me. Jason, go ahead.
Jason Hill:
Yeah. I have many favorite memories, but I think one that really stands out is our participation in the Prides, specifically the World Pride, which also coincided with the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots. So, of course, at AHF we have the double-decker bus, and it's just a sea of people, a sea positivity, everyone having fun. It's just absolutely... I can't even describe it. You get so overwhelmed with emotion, and then whenever the bus turns down Christopher Street, the street sort of narrows. You're going by Stonewall. We have the deejay playing all the gay classics, the Village People Donna Summer, whatever else, and it's just this overwhelming sense of togetherness and how far we've come. Whenever you're passing Stonewall, you remember Pride started out as a protest, as a riot, and how far we've come along. So, that's one of my unforgettable memories.
Lauren Hogan:
I have to say I was there for that event, and by far, New York has probably the most buck-wild Prides I've ever been to. You guys love to strip naked and just be naked for no reason, so it was quite a sight to see.
Jason Hill:
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Lauren Hogan:
But it was a historic event, for sure, but I was just like, "Wow. You guys party different up here." So, that's for sure. I know it was memorable because it was for me, too. So, Jonathan, what about you?
Jonathan Cowans:
So, I'm mostly at the healthcare center level, so it would probably be our team building events we have in Dallas. We usually have a team building event maybe once a year, and we'll pick a Friday evening, and we'll all go... So, the last one we had, we went to Pinstack's, and just seeing the doctors and the employees just let loose and have fun bowling and things like that, I really enjoyed that, not to get... We enjoyed the drinks also, but to just have fun-
Jason Hill:
We love those.
Jonathan Cowans:
... just let loose after a long day's work, that was some of my favorite events and memories of AHF. Another one is the Thanksgiving dinners. That's another event that we have with the patients involved, and they're able to play games and have fun, and really enjoy themselves and see that we're not only just caregivers, but we also are humans and things like that. We're able to let loose and have fun with them. So, that was one of my favorite memories.
Lauren Hogan:
Absolutely. So, we're almost at time, but I do have one more question for you guys, and that is, what advice would you give to other employees that are wanting to promote within the organization or maybe want to even go into a different department? Marisa, you stated you started out in HR, but you're now an EA to the board, Michael and Peter. Jason, you started off in OTC. You're in PHD. So, what advice would you give to employees that want to create their own path or cultivate their own path at AHF? I won't call on anybody in particular. Let's make it fun. Who wants to start?
Jonathan Cowans:
I'll start. One thing is work hard. Work hard and have patience. If you work hard and just wait, your time will come. Don't jump ship. A lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm just tired. I'm throwing in the towel," but you have to work hard and show that you really care, and have that passion deep down in your heart, and your time will come.
Lauren Hogan:
Jason, I think Marisa's waiting on. Yeah.
Jason Hill:
Yeah. I'll echo that sentiment. Work hard. It's cliché. It pays off, and like you said, it might not come when you want it, but consistency really pays off, and I think working with AHF is a very unique company in the sense that we have all these different business lines and opportunities to grow, for growth, just like if there's a... What I say is you sort of strengthen your weaknesses and hone in on your strengths, and that's what I try to do as a leader in PHD, is I look within my team and I try to caress the strengths and let them... If they have ideas, yes, let's do it. That's the great thing about AHF. We have all these resources that if it doesn't exist, we could make it exist. For instance, whenever I was wanting to take Spanish to elevate my skills at the workplace, AHF helps with that. They compensated my Spanish classes. So, we have all these tools that we can do to elevate, and it really is about working hard and just really having fun doing it, and it pays off. Marisa?
Lauren Hogan:
Go ahead, Marisa.
Marisa Nilchavee:
Yeah. No. I got it. Yeah. To echo Jonathan and Jason, I think it's hard work, and I think it's hard work, but not expecting anything back, because hard work is just hard work. When you work hard, you feel good at the end of the day. That's your reward. One time Michael asked me a question. He asked, "Why did you join AHF? You started at the front desk. Why did you join? You have an educational background and all that stuff. Why here?" and I said, "Because I believe in AHF. I believe that it's about doing something good, and I wanted to be a part of something that does something good, and I'm a hard worker." I think to echo Jason and Jonathan in this, it's being a hard worker. Again, it's enjoying what we do, and that will give you your growth. It's not expecting, oh, if I clock in at 9:00 and I still all the way until 9:00, I'm going to get promoted and I'll be recognized, blah, blah, blah.
Marisa Nilchavee:
It's not just that. It's beyond that. It's your heart. It's your dedication, and I think what the three of us, and four of us, including you, Lauren, is that we care. We see the vision, we believe in the vision, and that's what keeps us here, and that's what keeps our growth. I think that's the thing about it. If you want to grow in AHF, it's about you. It's about your dedication to the mission, and do you believe in it? If you believe in it, you're going to go places you couldn't even imagine. So, I think that for me, my sprinkle of advice is if you love AHF or you love whatever job you're doing, really put your heart into it, and the reward will come back at you. So, it's the joy of sitting here with you, Lauren, and Jason and Jonathan, and Theresa over here monitoring me, making sure I'm on track. It's the joy that we have together, so I think that's the reward. That's how you get where you want to get in your growth.
Lauren Hogan:
Well, I think that was a beautiful and inspirational way to close out this episode, so thank you, Marisa. Like I said, y'all don't know she's studying to be an attorney too. I just had to plug you really quickly. That's why she's got all those adjectives in her-
Marisa Nilchavee:
I'll tell you something, Lauren. I'll tell you something about that. That's inspired by AHF. Me going to law school is inspired by AHF because we do so much advocacy, and it made me want to be even more enthralled into what that is. So, there you go.
Lauren Hogan:
Gosh, you're such an overachiever, Marisa. But anyway, thank you guys so much for joining me on this episode. This was so great. I really think that it's going to help our listeners understand more about the organization, and I just appreciate you guys taking the time. So, thank you, and I hope everybody tunes in, and we'll see you next time.
Jason Hill:
Thank you. Bye.
Marisa Nilchavee:
Thank you, guys. Bye.
Lauren Hogan:
Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, like, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. Follow us on Instagram at After Hours, and see you next time.